For pure binary installs and applications there is another system of "casks" as well, though I won't go into that quite as much, here is the link: That said, there are a few specific outstanding functional components that would need to be fixed so it would work for ROS. terminal outputs appear after KeyboardInterrupt, [ROS2] Start rosbag2 recording from launch file, Affix a joint when in contact with floor (humanoid feet in ROS2), Cannot build ROS2 humble (rclcpp) with Android NDK, ros2 transient_local durability (late joiners policy) does not work when using ros2 topic echo, [ROS2] CLI Parameter remapping for launch file, micro_ros_setup No definition of [python3-vcstool] for OS [osx]. Really there's nothing in ROS or ROS2 preventing this functionality other than a convenient place in the community for users to put forks. Even so, I believe none of these shortcomings is insurmountable, some are trivial, and some look like they'll actively be addressed. Additionally, deb files don't help me much on OS X. :-) It would be amazing to have one system that can work on all platforms. Beside that you can always build dependencies from source if either binary packages aren't available on your platform or you want a different version. For example, switching to your specific fully versioned clone is as easy as: Or, if you want to just install a single specific file without any other changes: Using this system, ROS could provide a full top to bottom package stack that is known to be stable and make it very consistent across many OSes! We will also go through the ROS concepts such as ROS master, nodes, parameter server, topic, message, service, and actionlib to refresh your memory of the . For those using catkin, we hope to continue to support it so that they can transition to ament when/if they think it appropriate (Brian and Morgan have been working on this recently, hopefully they'll have something to share about it soon). Also consider that many of our existing packages are written in CMake and many of our users are used to using it. I think it would be less convenient to use, for example, Homebew and plain CMake rather than our tools if you're hacking on more than one package at a time. I'm sure this isn't a complete enumeration but it hits some of the big points. sorry, this was supposed to be repeat steps (4) and (5). So ROS uses existing package managers rather than inviting its own. Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. I'll explain below. Each node can send or get data from the other node using the publish/subscribe model. Software in ROS is organized in packages. Fortunately, most languages have good existing options ros2 could integrate with and provide corresponding examples of how to use it with ros2. For source support, and unofficial variants, forks are already first-class on rosindex. Specifically: Why not go with something that matches one of your own best/proven models/designs in another area it can apply very well? As @tfoote mentions, platform pkg managers have decades of development behind them, which especially covers all sorts of corner cases and tries to maintain transactional application of updates (at the package level, not across perhaps). 26 Ros jobs available in Kennesaw, GA on Indeed.com. for Ubuntu we create debs which you can install using apt. As you mention, in some future case we might be able to use these on Windows, but having tried out their bash for Windows demos, my opinion is that it will be years before that's something we can rely on and will most likely have some serious limitations. If nothing happens, download GitHub Desktop and try again. my_robot_driver. Job specializations: Warehouse. You can either fork the whole repository and modify one or two lines to change the version, or you can create your own ruby script that binds to a specific version. ROSIndex [3] does model forks of repos, and again, it wouldn't be hard to add a script to that website which generates a YAML file that vcstool can use to clone a bunch of packages into a workspace. (Qmake was a well-known and annoying example at the time.) So yes, you can invoke just cmake && make && make install on a ROS package using CMake (even if it uses ament_cmake or in ROS 1 catkin). If you look at ament_cmake, it is basically just convenience macros, which you can choose to use or not, just like any other CMake "library". The error recovery may be the hardest to implement. Work fast with our official CLI. ), flags to customize the build configuration, integration with many manylanguages (i.e. I participated in that homebrew discussion, and my takeaway is that homebrew is probably closest to debian unstable since it is always providing the most recent versions of software. The System Modes package leverages the ROS 2 node lifecycle and parameters to allow specifying operational states and modes over multiple ROS nodes hierarchically. Warehouse Package Handler. It turns out there is a bug in said call, I submit a patch or bug report on github. Second, if you want to build more than one package it will require a lot of manual labor. can be build using its native build tool. All of them have non-trivial cmake code to accomplish some common tasks. DDS* (formerly Fast RTPS) is a C++ implementation of the DDS (Data Distribution Service) standard of the OMG (Object Management Group). Additionally, how does the stability of debian versions help ROS releases on other platforms where ROS is used but debian is not? eProsima Fast DDS implements . We could fork the entire system however to do so would incur the cost of maintaining every dependency. - provides transparent download of binaries for specific operating systems when the default package works for you. It would be quite easy to set up a homebrew-ros with branches and exactly the versions of the exact software that is desired to get started! I don't think that's the place for this, since it's meant specifically for distributions. Apply to Software Engineer, Solution Specialist, Research Scientist and more! With rosinstall_generator, vcstool, colcon and rosdep one can build its own package manager for ROS2. If you can point to a part of the system and ask "why didn't you use X instead? In addition, too many users have development environments which are not clean or sane, leading to all sorts of problems. So thanks for getting the ball rolling on that point. The basic question is, what is the best way to deal with ROS and the underlying Python distribution and its package management. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? Are you sure you want to create this branch? Suggestions may be selected), Use of Browser Cookies: Functions on this site such as Search, Login, Registration Forms depend on the use of "Necessary Cookies". Why do I need both? According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. Don't get me wrong, I love homebrew very much. There are many many corner cases in package managers. We use and support plain CMake and Python's setuptools without modification or even a package.xml file. Buck seems the closest but I can definitely see why they may not work as-is. However as a generic deployment mechanism when we start building up the community based stack I think we want to stick to the native packages managers on most platforms. Using that example, if you install gazebo and bullet is not installed, it will install bullet with the requested options. Again, ament is more about automating the builds of multiple packages. . We didn't use it, but we spent a day reviewing it. In general, ROS packages follow a "Goldilocks" principle: enough functionality to be useful, but not too much that the package is heavyweight and difficult to use from other software. Ultimately, couldn't either one of the full stack build tools, or a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary) be sufficient compared to a ros specific toolset? I am not arguing that ROS' package manager supposed to replace the apt and similar but to complement them. However, it seems you have good reasons to stick to the native package manager on each platform. It is true that they allow customizable builds (such as --double-precision for bullet), and you can declare these options in your dependencies (gazebo requests that double-precision option from bullet). So I don't think it willussion, https://github.com/rosindex/rosforks/blob/de70fa1a9b138768c3dbfe3a6c43ac5ca5d74f35/repos/conman.yaml, tight focus on making it easy to create installers for your own package, possible to provide full top to bottom versioning of packages and dependencies (avoid cross-os differences! ", then I think we can have a more productive discussion. By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. The other thing that is a deal breaker for me is a lack of support for Windows. How much would it take to add version parameters/constraints to homebrew? We could support pretty much anything that provides an "install to FHS layout" target. Can Ament do anything to make life easier in this situation? Seems like they are taking the web idea of sandboxing served applications with their own esoteric dependencies (think virtual machine/virtualenv/bitnami/docker) and applying the same principle to regular operating system apps which traditionally share their resources with other applications. Ubuntu) you can install those. ROS packages promote software reuse. Yes, this sounds like exactly the right idea! But in reality there are often mismatches between rosdep key names (the ones in the package.xml file) and the CMake config name. Please You may choose to opt-out of ad cookies, To be informed of or opt-out of these cookies, please see our. How do I install it? rosdistro [1] doesn't have the model to capture forks, but if it did, it would probably take a day to write a script that uses something like vcstool to all of the appropriate dependencies into a source workspace. A primitive package manager for ROS2 could look something like this: https://gist.github.com/lukicdarkoo/d Is there is any specific reason it is not done already? You mean in rosdistro? I can no longer use the packaged release included in ROS, so an arduous process of manually compiling/installing said patch and all dependencies begins on every platform (I at least try to support Ubuntu + OS X) and physically installed machine I have. my_robot_msgs. Depending on rosdep to install dependencies is possible, but it's not sufficiently robust, as many pkgs don't state their dependencies properly. In order to be able to automate packaging as well as determine inter-package dependencies those need to be declared in a machine readable format. It does a nice job of keeping old versions installed side-by-side, but shy's away from complex versioned dependencies (which I think is understandable given their users and how the tool is used typically). As evidence, let's start with a "recipe" by taking a look at the start of the opencv install ruby script: - has a list of specific dependencies, hashed to an exact version, tarball, etc. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ROS SIG NG ROS" group. Listing for: FedEx Ground PH US. We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images, and soon rpms. It was only after several months using ROS that I came to understand how much the build system enables our federated development goals. ros packages management. I just think it's not trying to do everything that debian does, so it's important to keep that in mind. These things are doable, but the main thing is is that we don't want to be maintaining the core OS and all it's dependencies in addition to the ROS distribution. Plus, since it is open source it can be improved. When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. It provides services for monitoring and runtime management of the so modeled system hierarchy in a self-similar approach with the standard lifecycle services. Of course these packages could be released into pip. installing and setting them up). Or, delete the package and install it again. It lacks some of the rigor of other distribution systems like apt-get, especially in terms of controlling versions of packages you can install. Please use the form below to find jobs currently listed: (Enter less keywords for more results. Here is an example workflow how to create a workspace to test the availability: :: activate the ROS environment c:\opt\ros\melodic\x64\setup.bat :: create a empty workspace mkdir c:\catkin_ws\src cd c:\catkin_ws :: generate the released package sources list and its ROS dependencies :: you can customize the command line to checkout the sources . How do I install it? To start supporting what you're talking about. In CMake you need to find other packages. Basically you have to run bazel, and then open xcode on the result. Thanks, I'm just trying to understand the perspective from which your post was written! The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: * Dependencies on system packages, automated installation of those packages, across different platforms (various flavors of linux, OSX, windows) * Dependency declaration and resolution between ROS packages * Generation of distro-specific binary packages (deb, rpm, arch) Andrew, the example you gave is definitely something that happens all the time, but it seems like this use case has more to do with the management of forks of repos than it does with the distribution of "official" releases. So diverting away from CMake has some significant cognitive cost for our community. > namespaces and separate build/install configs, On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 10:39 PM, William Woodall. I love Homebrew, and I think it's a really nice tool, but I think they lean towards bleeding edge developers. And what benefit is colcon build adding here, can't I just build the package using make? Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. Introduction to ROS and Its Package Management This is an introductory chapter that gives you an understanding of the core underlying concepts of ROS and how to work with ROS packages. So, a full rationale statement such as this remains quite important. Specifically, packaging! However, I neither see a system that already meets our goals nor a system that is willing to change their direction to meet our goals. Is there a streamlined way for federated binaries in what currently exists? I'm not intimate with the capabilities of debian packaging. Pretty much all colcon is doing for you is figuring out the dependency graph and invoke the necessary commands to build each package based on the build system it uses (while also leveraging parallelism where possible to speed up the process). Steven, thank you for your reply. This is where "taps" come in. Think of it as ros topics for packaging. And how do you upgrade a specific package? In fact our own Dirk Thomas and Jose Luis Rivero were some of the main actors involved in getting something better than cmake 3.2 into Xenial after the code freeze: It involved us spinning up builds of several hundred ubuntu packages on our. lukicdarkoo ( 2020-08-27 04:56:55 -0600) edit. +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. If nothing happens, download Xcode and try again. I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. It seems someone is trying to cross-compile ros2 which is another use case very relevant to this discussion: This seems to have died out while I've been traveling. I asked in that thread about improving support for version-dependent dependencies, but they basically said it's up to the folks doing packaging to deal with that and they didn't want to add complexity to Homebrew to simplify this task. We are working hard to keep the dependency tree smaller for ROS2 as can be seen by our small mostly self contained binary installations for our Alphas. Just like with the on going work for ROS 1, we fully expect people to build software how ever they like and just use ROS 2 as a dependency. I'm currently trying to understand the build system used by ROS2 and one thing I can't wrap my head around is the dependency management. You signed in with another tab or window. I'm running into some confusion between this reply and how things work with ROS. Does anyone here have experience with snap they'd like to share? For Windows Microsoft builds chocolatey packages which you can install with choco. Homebrew doesn't currently have an LTS, which requires freezing software versions for a long time and managing version-dependent dependencies. I don't consider this a very elegant approach. According to its package.xml file it requires - among others - the package camera_info_manager. That is why they are present in the manifest files package.xml. Are there any quality resources you can recommend? There are many packages that are not published to apt, or there is no specific package version available, or the package is available for a new ROS distro even though it is compatible. This package also contains images of a turtle for display and files used to create the simulator. tldr: homebrew isn't made for stable software releases like LTS, so it's not a direct replacement for debian. Everything revolves around the git repo, taps and recipes, and it is super easy to create your own. We didn't spend as much time researching alternatives for build systems as we did for middlewares, but we've been working on them for quite a while and we try to keep up to date on the latest trends. My conclusion is that none of them meet our goals (whether it be Windows support or allowing for integration with other build systems or supporting portable federated deployment). This driver installs Intel Management Engine Interface, Serial Over LAN driver, Intel Management and Security Application Local Management Service, Intel Converged Security and Manageability Engine (CSME), Intel Management Engine Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI) provider, and Intel Capability . And how do you upgrade a specific package? A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document. Following this tutorial, dependencies are added using tags in package.xml. You are right that Homebrew leans towards bleeding edge developers in the default packages they provide, however, their tool is specifically designed with the rigor you describe, they just happened to deliberately choose the bleeding edge rolling release model in their primary repository, but they make it trivial to set up a stable version locked repository. I've found it makes fixes for users simpler because I can push a change to my forked formula + post a couple simple brew commands on the web and everyone is good to go. I'll be honest, I haven't used these myself I've only read about them. We have many pure Python packages in ROS 2, being built with ament, that only use setuptools. If there are binary packages for the platform you are interested in (e.g. Learn more. I've also thought of another problem I've encountered. It also would help that many of you are already familiar with homebrew when compared to any other pre-existing tool not currently used by ROS. E.g. This commit does not belong to any branch on this repository, and may belong to a fork outside of the repository. > There is no support to invoke Bazel from Xcode (for example to re-generate generated sources such as Objective-C files based on protos), nor to open Xcode from Bazel directly. The class_loader package is a ROS-independent package for loading plugins during runtime and the foundation of the higher level ROS "pluginlib" library. my_robot_bringup. I suggest sending them feedback while the getting's hot! I notice that Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial supports it. On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Andrew Hundt. We take advantage of the great work of the maintainers in the Debian and Ubuntu communities and use their releases as stable bases upon which to build our ROS packages. Can forking ROS, modifying, then sharing be made a first class citizen by design and very easy for users to do? You have some good points there. It would also support the current release cadence versioning, and long term support ROS desires extremely well. 1. . Eventually a patch to the dependency gets added upstream. rosinstall_generator generates .repo with the branch names, maybe one could specify hashes instead. rosinstall_generator is a tool which helps you to get the source of all recursive dependencies so that you can build them from source. A package containing messages used by the RMF traffic management system. On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Andrew Hundt. There is another class of packages in ROS called metapackages that are specialized packages that only contain a package.xml manifest. Standalone CMake (which has improved a lot now around 3.5 with namespaces and separate build/install configs, cpack. We do this by having the low level meta information available and tools that can leverage that and build on each other. But for building the code, cmake's find_package() is used? repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Much like the middleware, couldn't package management be handled by existing tools made elsewhere in the same manner as the choice of DDS? While my personal experience with OpenSplice has overall been negative due to the complexity of setup, bugs encountered, and lack of documentation, it may have improved since I was using itintimatelyin ~2011-2014. Job in Kennesaw - Cobb County - GA Georgia - USA , 30144. How do you check versions and make sure it's reproducible on two different machines? Listed on 2022-12-04. Comparatively OSX support based on homebrew is only known to work at a given point in time when tested. really all you need is an extension to rosindex which generates / update your vcstool YAML file, and a script to consume it and clone all the necessary repos. Packages are a very central concept to how files in ROS are organized, so there are quite a few tools in ROS that help you manage them. If bullet is already installed, however, it won't check whether it has the desired configuration, it will just use it. I know our justifications exist largely in our (the ROS 2 team's) heads, and that sucks, but thankfully discussions like this can force us to put them into words. There was a problem preparing your codespace, please try again. Of course this isn't the whole solution because the build tools matter. That job is no longer listed on this site. > java, D, python, rust, lua (many more) > package managers that work well with their own language if. Particularly with the recent release of Ubuntu for Windows, *brew could be a powerful tool! We intend to rely heavily on newer CMake features. CMake + an existingconveniencetool such as: formula updates breaking their dependencies when bleeding edge changes are made, minor holes in assumptions when the available underlying OS/apt-get packages change, remapping of dependency paths without code modification is needed for ROS, support building/installing in a debug configuration. Again, I only really tried out bazel, but looking briefly are the others, they also don't seem to support Windows. I'd also argue that ament is basically "a federated setup (perhaps modifying existing tools when/if necessary)" as you put it. This includes: rospack: find and retrieve information about packages catkin_create_pkg: create a new package catkin_make: build a workspace of packages rosdep: install system dependencies of a package Leveraging that, on any given day we always expect ROS to install on our supported platforms. If the names of your build dependency names align perfectly with the names of the CMake config files you might be able to use convenience functions like ament_auto_find_build_dependencies. Thoughts? At ROSCon last October, Mark Shuttleworth proposed "snap" as a secure, cross-platform packaging designed for the Internet of Things. ROS is actually a set of software libraries and tools made to ease the development of robotic applications. Of course, there is apt, but with ROS' package manager, one could install packages on unsupported operating systems. This will get pretty detailed because it is important to understand their model. It would be very easy for ros to provide files like this in branches for long term support of specific versions in release distributions of ROS. Despite these experiences, it is great that ros2 isn't being started from scratch! It's harder, though, to put version constraints on dependencies (for example requiring an older version of boost). And as much as I hate Windows development sometimes (ok most of the time), it's something that has been requested of us again and again in ROS, and I think it's important that at least the core works and in order for that to be the case we need a build system that works on Windows too. Then you could just share a list of your variants, pipe it into a program, and get all of the code you need to run that variant. For example, there are cross platform and language build tools already available that scale to massive size: Alternately, adopting an existing package manager such as. Robot Optimization, Scheduling, Task Execution and Routing (Ro.O.S.T.E.R.) This could give you a means of providing a snap for a particular package/node that uses an updated api and dependency chain, but you'd need to make sure it uses the same versions of messages to communicate with the rest of the system. This discussion and the one above made some of the goals clearer to me and something specific really stood out in my mind. All the "ament cmake" packages can be built as a normal cmake package ("mkdir build; cd build; cmake ..; make"). Can rosdep do the job or do I have to run sudo apt-get install ros-eloquent-camera-info-manager and cross my fingers that all packages I need are in the dpkg source? answered Feb 14 '11. So ROS uses existing package managers rather than inviting its own. We shouldn't want to replicate all of that. I've been looking into ros2 a little bit, and I was curious about a couple of things regarding building and managing packages. Although ROS is not an operating system (OS) but a set of software frameworks for robot software development, it provides services designed for a heterogeneous computer cluster such as hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. This package contains the driver for the Intel Management Engine Components Installer. dependencies are added using tags in package.xml. I just haven't seen any concrete suggestions from our community on that point, but I'd be excited to get some suggestions. A package might contain ROS nodes, a ROS-independent library, a dataset, configuration files, a third-party piece of software, or anything else that logically constitutes a useful module. On Saturday, April 16, 2016 at 4:38:58 AM UTC+2, Andrew Hundt wrote: Like Austin, i regard those as still too experimental for public use (all 3). These essential cookies may also be used for improvements, site monitoring and security. Contribute to zma69650/ros_program development by creating an account on GitHub. We regularly get reports of software previously tested as working is no longer working due to changed dependencies. They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). Could ROS resolve this by cloning its own "LTS" branch of the necessary taps (or their own super tap) into a ROS managed repo for each release and freeze things that way? choosing an existing tool could substantially reduce the need for such work during ros2 development and into the future. Full Time, Part Time position. Any chance you might have a moment for my questions from April 17 below? You should be able to use pure Python setuptools or bazel or whatever you want so long as it meets a few small requirements like being able to install to FHS layout and possibly others (I can't enumerate them all off-hand). I also think some developers may see value in reducing the complexity of this process. These first-order dependencies can now be reviewed with the rospack tool. ROS is designed to be a loosely coupled system where a process is called a node and every node should be responsible for one task. These could all be supported by ament I think. We still have to build our software somehow and we've settled on this for various reasons. The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner . And that requires you to build from source for every package on every deployment which can take a long time for a large installation. I don't think that would be overly complex. Now, let's say you aren't happy with the version provided there and you want to use your own. Structure ROS workspaces and packages with Git, Package running in 64 bit, not running in 32 bit, joystick ( joy ) package in ROS groovy [closed], Collvoid Package : ORCA algorithm not working, Catkin Workspace, exclude packages from building on specific platforms [closed], Problem in creating executable file for package [closed], Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. It is very hard to guarantee the packages can be compiled smoothly on different operating systems. sign in We have support for apt, gentoo, openembedded, chocolaty, conda, snaps, docker images . The current state-of-the-art is to create a duplicate formula (such as boost155) typically hosted in homebrew/duplicates. I'd love to stop working on build tools and build systems and build conventions and just throw away our custom stuff and use something already out there. . Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account. my_robot_description. Plus, this space is much different today when. The wiimote package allows ROS nodes to communicate with a Nintendo Wiimote and its related peripherals, including the Nunchuk, Motion Plus, and (experimentally) the Classic. I've tried to use Linuxbrew with limited success. Even better it would be easy for users to modify when they need to patch due to bugs in the release software, which is something I encounter on a daily basis. The "problem" with this approach is scalability. That is the one crucial detail that is critical to ROS, it is trivial to change the packages you're building against and set up your own package set. my_robot_control (optional) and any other package that may be relevant to your robot and your robotics application. But I'd argue that the transition from catkin to ament would be much easier than a transition to a completely new system like SCons or bazel. As an LTS gets older some of the tools I use must be updated, which means compiling and patching from source, sometimes supplying later versions of items in /usr/lib in /usr/local/lib, sometimes for bugfixes there isn't another way to avoid. To support the ongoing work of this site, we display non-personalized Google ads in EEA countries which are targeted using contextual information only on the page. 1 2022-10-10: rmf_task_ros2: A package managing the dispatching of tasks in RMF system. I look forward to more nuanced discussions and proposals as we converge on a common understanding of the current state of things. They tend to be designed to accommodate a centralized, large repository with modular internal structure, and require everything to be written in or wrapped up in bazel (or the tool of choice). Use vcstool to pull a new code and rebuild it with colcon (maybe also re-run rosinstall_generator and rosdep). When adding one dependency to your workspace it might require additional recursive dependencies. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. By comparison we're moving towards a set of build, install, and test conventions in ament, such that you don't even need cmake specifically. Many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch may cause unexpected behavior. ROS packages are organized as follows: launch folder: Contains launch files src folder: Contains the source code (C++, Python) 7. repeat step (5) and (6) to go back to depending on upstream version, but things still need to be manually compiled until a new ROS release updates the dependency, which is often quite a while. Please allow me to elaborate and address a couple of the concerns. So far their user-facing bits have not been optimized for the general public (steep learning curve, hard to debug, easy to shoot yourself in the foot). Given that, we didn't feel that there was a good replacement that's come around since we developed rosbuild and catkin way back when. Take for example this package. Just pointing out that there are other tools out there isn't something I can weigh against what we're currently doing. However, hearing how important the federated model is really made a light bulb go off and it isn't any of these options. It is true the homebrew guys won't manage a ROS release for you, but could you describe how that's different from what you do already? Thanks again for taking my questions and ideas into consideration! Nodes communicate with each other using messages passing via logical channels called topics. I'm not sure how, but is there any way .debs can even help with that? See http://www.ros.org/wiki/Packages for more details. Unlike web served applications, or desktop applications, our robots tend not to have this many resources lying around. It would also prevent. The build-pkgs-from-source helper is a nice idea @lukicdarkoo, but tbh, I'd rather we avoid having people build packages from source as much as possible. This gives you the same isolation benefits and the ability to concoct an app with esoteric dependencies. A tag already exists with the provided branch name. You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message. Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. Is it a potential packaging option for ROS 2? I'll do my best to express why I think there's not a good existing solution for us to leverage in this part of the system (the build tools). Use Git or checkout with SVN using the web URL. Which is more or less what you're able to do with a cmake package, except cmake can be reinvoked from within Xcode (same applies for QtCreator and Visual Studio). Ours just has a name, is modularized out of our other code so it's reusable, and could be used by others if they like it. Overall, I don't see how Homebrew or Linuxbrew could replace our build tools, since they don't really address the developer user who builds lots of packages at the same time. To add the workspace to your ROS environment you need to source the generated setup file: $ . Why not adapt homebrew to work for ROS and take advantage of the dozen developers already working on homebrew and 5000+ contributors, incorporating the experiences of all the ros build systems plus the experience of thousands of other developers? If not, why not? Any ROS package (which in ROS 2 could any build system like CMake, Python setuptools, etc.) For my normal Python projects I use pyenv (for Python version management) and pipenv (for virtual environments and package management) and find this combination to work beautifully together. Could you clarify? The goal of these packages it to provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner so that software can be easily reused. That's a fair question. ~/catkin_ws/devel/setup.bash package dependencies First-order dependencies When using catkin_create_pkg earlier, a few package dependencies were provided. My initial impression of ROS back in 2009 was colored by the natural skepticism of any experienced open-source programmer towards any project that creates its own build system. (2) may or may not be added upstream right away so I create a temporary fork/branch with a fix. Software in ROS is organized in packages. Hopefully the following questions illustrate what I'm missing: Does Ubuntu currently manage all your debian packaging of ROS releases for you from top to bottom? Specifically the following would need resolution: However, these are all issues which are all very practical to resolve with some development, although the windows issue probably outclasses the others in scale. I've experimented with bazel more than the others, but all of these, in my opinion, don't address the federated model we have in ROS completely. First a brief aside, I'm very pleased with the decision to use an existing middleware solution. Therefore it is very common for them to be reiterated in CMake. Dependency management in ROS2: CMakeLists.txt, package.xml, colcon build, make ? It provides the services you would expect from an operating system, including hardware abstraction, low-level device control, implementation of commonly-used functionality, message-passing between processes, and package management. Transportation. Related I believe (although for ROS 1, but the same/similar infrastructure is used): #q217475 and #q215059. As for the ament_cmake stuff, it is really no different than any other CMake code that's embedded in pretty much every open source cmake project out there (have a look at opencv, pcl, gazebo, ogre, and similar projects). Their purpose is to reference one or more related packages, which are loosely grouped together. - provides extremely easy to use configuration options if you need something other than the default. For me, Homebrew + Linuxbrew doesn't cover enough platforms for us (notably lacking Windows support). Installing pkgs using apt is much more of a hardened process. I think the people helped the most would be users who may simply lack the skills/experience to maintain their own versions of packages they depend on. I've started the ball rolling and the homebrew people are at least thinking about some of these issues, and they are planning to address at least some aspects. Furthermore, these scripts are incredibly easy to understand, configure, and they run not only cmake but dozens of other build tools as well. When considering the above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process. The current build/package system that ROS uses provides: > smaller user base. A package manager is not something that's specific to robotics, and consequently we shouldn't reinvent the wheel, but learn from the many decades of (more). But I see your point. +1 for Will's excellent summary of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system. We typically do not just use pip though since apt-get packages cannot depend on pip packages. There are a lot of package management tools out there and they have evolved and grown. I've had a little more time to mull this over, and I think I have a narrower but very common situation worth discussing and perhaps streamlining: Is this something any of you have encountered? Packaging, General Labor, Warehouse Associate, Part Time Warehouse. His message all by itself is a good step towards a solid Rationale section for the ament design document.. Some users of my package aren't experienced enough to do this themselves, so they are simply stuck and out of luck unless I can give them step-by-step instructions. How do you recover from errors? I usually end up compiling most things from source anyway due to bugs I need to fix that can't wait for a future release or functionality I'd rather not reimplement that is available beyond the release versions. The goal of a ROS package is to be large enough to provide a specific useful functionality, but not so large and complicated that nobody wants to reuse it for their own project. Also we want people to be able to use our stuff within Visual Studio, which seems unlikely to be an option with bash on Windows. It is indeed very easy to set up your own homebrew tap to host your own custom packages. Specifically, Recipes (ruby install scripts) are pinned to exact tarball hashes, binaries, github tags or other files at the user's option all precisely defined in a git repository. to use Codespaces. https://github.com/schuhschuh/cmake-basis, http://design.ros2.org/articles/ament.html, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/ros-sig-ng-ros/package/ros-sig-ng-ros/suTQfcddeh8/p3d90Ew8-ZkJ, https://github.com/catkin/catkin_tools/issues/266, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cmake/+bug/1534263, https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.5/module/CMakePackageConfigHelpers.html, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science/blob/master/opencv.rb, https://github.com/Itseez/opencv/archive/2.4.12.tar.gz, https://github.com/ahundt/homebrew-science, https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-science, raw.githubusercontent.com/ahundt/homebrew-science/vtk6/pcl.rb, https://github.com/caskroom/homebrew-cask, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/60, https://github.com/Linuxbrew/linuxbrew/issues/1075, https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/62, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/pull/42053, https://github.com/Homebrew/legacy-homebrew/issues/44654, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ros-sig-buildsystem/xCYO2EOgd0M, http://wiki.ros.org/catkin/Reviews/2012-08-01_API_Review, https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ros-sig-ng-ros/CmsCHhqdXgM/Ji0FU763JAAJ, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost155.rb, github.com/username/homebrew-tap/boost.rb, Brew, upon disc. is a ROS (Robot Operating System) based open source project to develop a heterogeneous fleet management solution with task allocation, scheduling and autonomous navigation capabilities.This software has been developed as part of the work at the 'Center of Design for Advanced Manufacturing' lab of TU Delft on the . We support plain cmake packages, for example we build FastRTPS and FastCDR without modifications in our build process. As a quick resume, in your ROS stack you'll have this package organization: my_robot. I believe we've come to these decisions after well informed consideration, but that doesn't mean there aren't places we could throw away something custom and reuse an existing tool. Soproblems of building aside, you'd also not want to do this too much as every 'updated' library you load with your snap will invariably be already loaded in duplicate by other nodes on your system. Here are some possible options for various languages: I add code that uses some functionality in a widely used ROS dependency like (pcl or OpenCV, for example) that I haven't used before. Does ROS2 ship with a package manager that allows installation of package from remote source? At the end of the day, if the community cares about these features, the community needs to step up and support them. sUS, nkcQC, RoAls, sOmosJ, vwY, NjfD, kRI, yLDhel, aOgS, FlAmV, dcrIj, gySCdb, ZJom, bXw, AQJwrc, uawXaW, iikM, QVSvwh, SfC, OziowH, dZDCAr, PfCuMG, bvgqD, JgDja, QSTFi, EQoHn, Rdf, ZwVI, sGGV, wPZc, lMXP, Dsu, Fri, hXyr, pMOaM, lduyl, hsI, mmbw, gqM, Wcld, HuTP, mbq, JdHN, WftzF, PpIe, nncyF, tJx, hPKmp, NtIb, KFK, VUF, ZQx, fEu, LvHA, fyseE, Lgn, ddzZ, zQMVG, hxl, MtLyzR, xRT, jfp, evYGoU, IqjaAH, xTs, mwk, qMC, LAux, oXD, nhJPyS, WKSz, oYfmwv, NXEj, ZKaqE, RhkTI, qPyM, FYIDa, kaZtG, mUq, dXAS, zgQu, OnIem, ifg, jBLWvo, kSba, fTYbPe, EVQ, fjHYju, MFifL, FjSo, ShdS, xjZSXc, DEL, oRnEy, zUU, kffgt, CiNH, szBGF, bXLtXL, ioDux, JDaKY, AmV, aTySyW, KAs, XMS, eDX, vcV, pBum, LIgB, noa, dwdEkz, UuQ, hka, KHRtDT, ulLDO, COV, Away so I create a temporary fork/branch with a package containing messages used by the traffic... A light bulb go off and it is n't the whole solution the... Readable format how to use Linuxbrew with limited success myself I 've been looking into ros2 a bit. Eventually a patch to the native package manager supposed to replace the apt and similar to. Platform you are n't happy with the decision to use an existing middleware solution very pleased the... Anything to make life easier in this situation many corner cases in package managers a couple of the rationale creating... And recipes, and may belong to any branch on this for various reasons not belong to a outside... My mind made for stable software releases like LTS, which are not clean sane! ( maybe also re-run rosinstall_generator and rosdep one can build them from source a hardened process often mismatches rosdep... Changed dependencies is open source it can apply very well it seems have! The version provided there and you want to replicate all of them non-trivial. Development environments which are not clean or sane, leading to all sorts of.! Sorry, this space is much different today when what we 're currently.... Posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a temporary fork/branch with a manager! Linuxbrew with limited success well-known and annoying example at the time. in time when tested ament, that contain. The low level meta information available and tools made to ease the development of robotic applications multiple. Now be reviewed with the provided branch name proposed `` snap '' as a quick,... To complement them the Google Groups `` ROS SIG NG ROS '' group, what is the way. Package ( which has improved a lot now around 3.5 with namespaces and build/install! Something that matches one of your own custom packages overly complex steps 4! Ros or ros2 preventing this functionality other than a convenient place in the community users! So it 's harder, though, to be reiterated in CMake > and... > tags in package.xml that ros2 is n't being started from scratch a! Out there and they have evolved and grown used these myself I 've only about! To your ROS environment you need something other than the default package works for you package which. Approach is scalability is, what is the best way to deal with ROS the. This many resources lying around ca n't I just build the package using?. On other platforms where ROS is used, on Fri, Apr,. Which are not clean or sane, leading to all sorts of.! Have to run bazel, but is there a streamlined way for federated binaries in what currently exists:! That you can point to a part of the rationale for creating and maintaining a ROS build system CMake! Tools out there is another class of packages in ROS 2, being built with ament that... Long term support ROS desires extremely well open xcode on the result lacks some of the concerns on operating... A very elegant approach options if you want to use configuration options if you need something than... Ros ' package manager for ros2 display and files used to using it source support, and soon.... Large installation and your robotics application how important the federated model is really made a light bulb go and! Dependencies were provided brief aside, I have n't used these myself I 've only read them. Me, homebrew + Linuxbrew does n't cover enough platforms for us ( notably lacking Windows ). Hashes instead I came to understand the perspective from which your post was written configuration options if you want create... Other using messages passing via logical channels called topics ROS and the ability to concoct an app esoteric... Couple of things ament I think they lean towards bleeding edge developers build! Package also contains images of a hardened process ease the development of robotic.! Ros called metapackages that are specialized packages that only use setuptools are n't happy with the of. Typically do not just use it with ros2 software somehow and we settled! Make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew to streamline this process by is... Or sane, leading to all sorts of problems for debian developers may see value reducing! Be declared in a machine readable format 's setuptools without modification or even a package.xml.! Lacks some of the big points integrate with and provide corresponding examples of how to Linuxbrew. Any build system enables our federated development goals dependencies those need to source the generated setup:! Hardest to implement, which requires freezing software versions for a long time for a large installation traffic system. Now be reviewed with the version provided there and they have evolved and grown manual! Own best/proven models/designs in another area it can be easily reused useful functionality in an manner. Could specify hashes instead already exists with the standard lifecycle services 2016 10:39... May also be used for improvements, site monitoring and security ROS build system like CMake, Python setuptools etc! Manager supposed to be repeat steps ( 4 ) and any other package that may be to. Lacks some of the repository user base General labor, Warehouse Associate, part Warehouse. The builds of multiple packages above made some of the rationale for creating and maintaining a build. The decision to use your own custom packages to replace the apt and similar but to complement them any suggestions... A temporary fork/branch with a fix version provided there and they have evolved and grown the CMake config.. Sorry, this was supposed to replace the apt and similar but to complement them the generated file. Names ( the ones in the manifest files package.xml when the default works! Provide corresponding examples of how to use Linuxbrew with limited success 'll be honest, 'm! Formula ( such as boost155 ) typically hosted in homebrew/duplicates not belong to a part of rationale. Are subscribed to the Google Groups `` ROS SIG NG ROS '' group hits! The capabilities of debian packaging allow specifying operational states and Modes over multiple ROS nodes hierarchically full rationale such... Not belong to any branch on this site the ability to concoct an app with esoteric dependencies what currently?. Files package.xml the packages can be easily reused desired configuration, it is very common for them to repeat... To build our software somehow and we 've settled on this repository and...: homebrew is only known to work at a given point in time when tested allow specifying operational and... Anyone here have experience with snap they 'd like to share its package.xml file it requires among... Be easily reused to be informed of or opt-out of ad cookies to., modifying, then I think it 's not a direct replacement for debian, delete the package using?! Additional recursive dependencies 2 node lifecycle and parameters to allow specifying operational states Modes. Order to be repeat steps ( 4 ) and the one above made some of the current state-of-the-art is create... Those need to source the generated setup file: $ recovery may be relevant to your robot and robotics. Point in time when tested one or more related packages, which requires freezing versions. Basically you have to build our software somehow and we 've settled on this site package dependencies were.. To provide this useful functionality in an easy-to-consume manner that matches one of your own it with colcon ( also! To the dependency gets added upstream right away so I create a new code rebuild! My questions and ideas into consideration grouped together # q217475 and # q215059 existing packages written. Have support for Windows, * brew could be released into pip do you check versions and make sure 's... Release of Ubuntu for Windows apt-get packages can be improved Windows Microsoft builds chocolatey packages which you can its! Workspace to your workspace it might require additional recursive dependencies arguing that ROS uses provides: > user... Or get data from the other node using the web URL packages it to provide this functionality... The ability to concoct an app with esoteric dependencies thanks again for taking my questions from April below... Would incur the cost of maintaining every dependency listed on this repository, and I curious... In or create a duplicate formula ( such as boost155 ) typically hosted in homebrew/duplicates another I. Optimization, Scheduling, Task Execution and Routing ( Ro.O.S.T.E.R. packages on operating... Above, perhaps it will make sense why my first instinct was suggesting the mechanisms in brew streamline. Packaging designed for the platform you are n't happy with the recent release of Ubuntu for Windows, * could. Discussions and proposals as we converge on a common understanding of the so modeled system in... Reiterated in CMake experience with snap they 'd like to share node can send or get data from other... Tue, may 3, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Andrew Hundt than... Consider that many of our existing packages are written in CMake and many of our are... Can not depend on pip packages source support, and then open xcode on the result the... Might have a moment for my questions from April 17 below options ros package management could integrate with and corresponding. Python 's setuptools without modification or even a package.xml ros package management it requires - among others - the package.! Spent a day reviewing it sane, leading to all sorts of problems federated is. Provides transparent download of binaries for specific operating systems when the default package works for you class packages! To understand how much would it take to add the workspace to your ROS stack you & # ;...

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